When creativity meets the carnivore diet: a conversation with Vicki E. Stergiannis
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You can listen above or on your favourite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.
Subscribe: Spotify | Apple | RSS | More
You can listen above or on your favourite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.
Show notes
The conversation with Vicki explores the themes of unexpected life changes, the dance with the universe, the intersection of art therapy and social events, the therapeutic value of mandalas, the role of teaching in fostering creativity, and the journey of writing a children's book. Vicky's experiences highlight the importance of embracing creativity, passion, and courage in pursuing one's artistic and professional endeavors. The conversation delves into the discovery and transition to a carnivore diet, debunking dietary myths, the impact of the carnivore diet, benefits of fasting, challenges and rewards of dietary changes, and personal testimony and dietary insights.
Takeaways
Takeaways
- Dance with the Universe
- Creativity and Passion
- Courage and Compulsion Carnivore diet benefits
- Fasting and its impact on the body
Connect with Vicki E. Stergiannis
Vicki E. Stergiannis has spent the past 30 years shaping minds, making art, and helping people heal. She trained in Fine Art at Monash and later completed a Diploma of Education at the University of Melbourne, before taking an unexpected leap that sent her to Europe for 23 years, where she taught English and immersed herself in cross-cultural classrooms.
Since returning to Australia, she’s taught English and Art across schools, adult-education programs, and community organisations, and more recently she’s expanded her practice with a Diploma in Mental Health. Today she works as an Art Therapist in the Melton area, blending psychology, creativity, and symbolism to support her clients.
She’s also a working artist—taking commissions, running workshops, and teaching everything from acrylic florals to watercolour to sacred geometry. And for the last four years she’s been teaching EAL to adult immigrants, a role she describes as some of the most meaningful work of her life.
Vicki brings warmth, fire, and a big creative heart into every space she steps into. And just to keep things interesting, she’s also a proud carnivore and advocate for the carnivore lifestyle—so we’re absolutely digging into that too.
Instagram: www.instagram.com/vicsterooart/
Since returning to Australia, she’s taught English and Art across schools, adult-education programs, and community organisations, and more recently she’s expanded her practice with a Diploma in Mental Health. Today she works as an Art Therapist in the Melton area, blending psychology, creativity, and symbolism to support her clients.
She’s also a working artist—taking commissions, running workshops, and teaching everything from acrylic florals to watercolour to sacred geometry. And for the last four years she’s been teaching EAL to adult immigrants, a role she describes as some of the most meaningful work of her life.
Vicki brings warmth, fire, and a big creative heart into every space she steps into. And just to keep things interesting, she’s also a proud carnivore and advocate for the carnivore lifestyle—so we’re absolutely digging into that too.
Instagram: www.instagram.com/vicsterooart/
Transcript of episode
Amra (00:00)
Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. I'm Amra Pajalic, writer, teacher and storyteller. Pull up a chair and let's dive into stories about writing, life and lessons learned, sharing wisdom from my armchair to yours. You can find the episode show notes, your free episode handouts and my how-to guides at amrapajalic.com slash podcast.
Now it's time to dive in.
Welcome to Amorizam Chair Anecdotes. I have got Vicky Stergiannis. She's spent the past 30 years in education. She's trained in fine art at Monash and completed her diploma of education at the University of Melbourne. And now she took an unexpected leap that sent her to Europe for 23 years where she taught English and immersed herself in cross-cultural classrooms. Since returning to Australia, she's taught English and art across schools, adult education, programs, community organizations, and now she's expanded her practice with a diploma in mental health and works as an art therapist in the Melton area, blending psychology, creativity and symbolism to support her clients. She's also a working artist, takes commissions, she runs workshops, she teaches everything from acrylic florals to watercolor and sacred geometry.
And she just brings her warmth, fire and her big creative heart to every space she's steps into, keeps things interesting. And she's also a proud carnivore and we're going to be talking about the carnival lifestyle and digging into that. So thank you so much for coming on my podcast. It's an absolute pleasure. Yes, and just the opportunity to, I love it. I'm loving this opportunity to talk to interesting people. And our paths have crossed a few times over the years. And we were just having a conversation about the universe kind of, you know, giving us these invitations and learning. from the universe. So I'm really excited to sort of have the opportunity to talk with you more about that too because you're very much a believer in that too.
Vicki:
Well I think that when we start off we think we can control everything. We're very adamant that this is how it needs to be. We take the path and we charge ahead. It's very much a left brain style thinking and it's a masculine. is I will forge the way. Whereas, you know, having a dance with the universe is really you...being receptive to what the universe brings to you. It's a dance. It's a beautiful dance, isn't it? When you kick back and allow things to just unfold is so much easier than charging ahead in this way. So that's something I've learned in my 56 years of life. Well, that's what I feel like I'm doing. Actually, I'd like to start there. Can you give us examples of your dance with the universe and how that's developed for you?
You know when you try too hard and then nothing comes of it. Yes, I do. And something within you breaks and you release all expectation, you release all effort. Yes. And then suddenly something grows from that. You know, it just unfolds naturally. It's like, I feel a flame. I feel something interesting rising within me. I want to chase something different now. And I guess, I guess when you release any sense of control things like that just appear in your life and it's it's such a beautiful surprise.
Vicki (03:47)
Yeah well that's what I feel like I'm doing now I'm sort of accepting the invitations that are put forward to me. You asked me about examples okay so so about a while ago I was employed as an teacher at a primary school.
And because I didn't have the experience as an art teacher, I'd had experience as an EAL teacher. And so they took me on because their art teacher had left suddenly, so they needed someone desperately within the year. It was the end of the term, term one. So not many people available. Most people who work as art teachers, they start from the beginning of the year. Anyway, so I was there and I took on the job. And of course they thought I was a little bit green. They didn't keep me on and I did everything in my power to be liked and to do the right thing and just hit my head above it.
They gave me such a load, especially for an inexperienced arts teacher, even though I did study art, I just wasn't experienced in the ways of the sec primary school system. And you know, there are certain protocols and just certain way anyway. So I just wasn't up to par according to them. And they let me go. They didn't employ me again for the next year. And I just released everything I was, I could have fallen into depression and maybe some people would consider depression but I don't think it was it was just me releasing it was like okay I'm not gonna try anymore I'm definitely not not gonna and and then everything came came to me I discovered mandalas I started a career you know like a long stint of Mandela making. It was just an amazing experience for about two, three years. I just made Mandelas. I've sold some work and it was just a great little journey. And then a therapy came along and then certain people came along and I just, that's the dance I'm talking about. When you release that wanting something, needing something, feeling like you need something.
Amra:
Yeah, I feel like there is that process of letting go because I'm a person who has a lot of ambition and is very goal orientated. But what I've learned is to set the goals for myself in terms of production or doing, but to remove the performative aspect. I can control writing as to how much I write or what I work on. I can't control once I put that out there, what will happen with it? Will it be a success or not?
So it's about setting those goals for yourself and then just seeing what happens. And I think that's the beautiful part because sometimes when you're very much about that performative external validation.
That's when I think the art falls down. Oh yeah, you completely destroy the creative process. You're not doing it from your heart. It's not genuine, it's not authentic, it's not coming out in a genuinely and authentically creative way. So you're thinking about the end result. So that's where I'm at now. It's got to come from the heart, which kind of brings me to my new project. Tell us! The Cosmic Club. Yes!
Vicki:
So my sister and I, my sister's recently single and I've been single for a good seven, eight years. you know, we were always looking out for places to go and meet people, just meet people, nothing, you know, nothing...more than just having a conversation, a real authentic conversation without the sleaze, without the romantic connotations, just meeting people, know, men and women. And at the bars we'd visit, they were too loud, too sleazy, just, you know, there was just too much emphasis on those things and we just kind of fed up. And then we decided, you know what, why don't we just go to a speed dating event and see what happens, you know, because apparently they slow down and you have compensations, we didn't know. And then we kind of just jumped fast forward and said, why don't we make our own speed dating app? And things just lit up for me. And so this is my new passion. mean, other than art therapy, and I still teach English and do art therapy, but this is the most recent passion of mine. yeah, so we had our second free function event yesterday, just yesterday, the seventh of...
December 2025, we'll listen to it later later. We've got excellent feedback. So what I do is I bring art therapy into this speed dating space. We talk about authentic subjects. I create games which takes off the focus of the person. So they make medallas in groups. I group them according to their numerology. I group them according to their favourite colour for example and that way they have something in common to talk about. It's just amazing. There are so many, I've got like 60 different activities on my belt you know so I'm really excited to create new content you know brand new content every time we have an event. And to not make it the same. But also I'm just I'm listening to this I'm like this is the teacher thing. Yes.
Amra (08:57)
You know when you are a teacher and you're delivering workshops and you're working with people you're always checking energy for figuring out energy, developing things, coming up with ideas. So this is like all those decades of the teaching. You know, and then the art therapy where you've really been looking at that mental health space and that supporting and how you create those connections. I really wanted to explore more the Mandela aspect. So can you tell us for people who don't know, what are Mandelas? How do they work?
Vicki:
So Mandelas were used by Carl Jung, the psychiatrist. with his psychiatric patients. And he felt that when they were ready to realign or defragment, because they will come to him fragmented, and when they were ready to unify their personalities or their souls, they started creating circles. And he sort of looked into it. And people that are ready,
to become whole again. create circles and so he looked into it. He's written a whole book on Mandela's. So anyway, I looked into it and of course Mandela is...evident in all art therapy spaces and especially because I had a background in Mandela before I started art therapy. Well actually no, just after. And I find that it's one of my most popular activities in the art therapy space and people love it. They take it home and they do the activity again and again at home in their own time.
They find that it just soothes them. It brings concepts like perfection, completeness, unity, a sense of community into their field. It's just amazing. I mean, I've got about five or six different styles of Mandela that they can try. Whether it's doing it with a compass or with objects or stamps or nature Mandela. So I have all these different styles that they can use the concept of Mandela with.
Yeah. Is this what you're doing with your workshops? Because you run workshops at the Hand Club, is where we're recording this podcast. So this is something you run.
I believe it's the 16th. Yeah we start on the 16th of February. Okay yeah I love the sound of that because I don't consider myself an artistic person but
As I've delved into this world of being an independent author, I've had to get creative in terms of creating covers and graphics and all of this. And I'm just addicted. Like whenever I'm feeling a little bit, you know, full in the head or just needing to quieten things down, I just, I literally sit down and do my Carver graphics just as a self-soothing fun thing. What is that exactly? Carver. So it's this program that you use to create digital.
Yeah, digital assets and stuff. like, yeah, so I'm starting to really, I feel like there is a bit of an artistic, something is awakening in me where I'm wanting to explore more art for myself.
The great thing about mandalas, I should probably add, is that you don't have to be a professional skilled artist. You don't have to be able to draw a horse per se. You can be creative in just plonking down shapes in a circular fashion, in a certain order, in a certain pattern. And that's all you really need to do in mandala work. And that's where your creativity really shines. Whereas skills, are a whole other ball game. I'm also an art teacher. I can teach you skills but not everyone's there for skill learning. No.
Amra
Yeah and I can see, see because I started down...meetings, school meetings, get me stressed sometimes and get me a little bit. And so I started doing things like taking and colouring activities as a self-soothing to just, you know, give me something to distract. That's a brilliant idea. Well, yeah, because I mean, you've been in the education sector and there is just so much repetition.and it just becomes like deja vu.
you've lived so many creative lives. You know, you're artist, teacher, therapist. What do you actually, what do you tell people that you actually do? And what's the greatest lesson in terms of that you've learned in your creative journey?
Vicki:
Well, I know essentially that I'm a teacher and an inspirer. I think I've come to terms with this role and I wholeheartedly step into that role when I'm...
So I do like to lead a group of people. I do it confidently and with conviction and creativity and intuition as well. I always have backup plans. I read the room as you say. Yeah,
I guess another thing that I have learnt is that I really want to keep it fresh and constantly create new material for my students. And I must say, my students come to class and they get excited, whether it's an English class or an art class, they get excited because I'm constantly changing things up or giving them unexpected activity. and moving the class in a way that I think is going to challenge them, excite them. There's never a complaint of boredom. And I have students, especially where I work at Geri Warrra, I have students that repeat the same class.
Like I have this one girl, my beautiful student, and she's been in the same class, which is the same level, term after term for the last two and a half years. So she keeps coming. It's like you have to try something better, you know, like more advanced. I mean, you've been in this level, level one, because I do. beginner to, I just do beginner classes basically. And she just keeps coming back. And she's learning. but she just loves the class. loves the energy. And I don't think that that's what people who are not teachers, they don't realise how much of ourselves we put in there. Like it's not the subject. It's not like, you know, we do teach certain things like with passion, if you know, we're passionate about it.
Amra:
But when you're a teacher, you like really carry the room and you bring so much of yourself. And that's why we're so exhausted. You know, after the day is done. after the session is done because we do bring everything and I'm more on the extrovert, you know, end of it. However, after, you know, 12 going on 13 years of teaching in high school, I'm starting to go a little bit more in the introvert because it's like I need that quiet space. need, and so I actually, have, you know, lots of friends that are really life and great community but...
I'm really content with spending time by myself and occupying myself. And before I used to be always like looking for someone to fill the time, someone to do things with. Whereas now I'm very content to just do that. So I just wanted to pick up on what you were talking about in terms of early, in terms of lonely. Like, is that also something that comes into it in terms of the energy that you're expending and then just needing?
Vicki:
that quiet time? I never feel lonely. Never. I always have something to do, something to fill my time with. I'm, I guess that was the wrong word, it's not lonely, but I just don't have that many people around me, you know, like I don't have, you know.
50 different friends. I don't. I have a good three very close friends that happen to be two live overseas and one lives interstate. So they're not close to me, which is fine. You know, we chat on the phone when we need to and then I have my sister who's my best friend. But yeah, I know that I just don't.
Amra (16:54)
I don't what it is, it's my personality. don't know you know anything about numerology but I'm a one. okay, so tell me about that. What? Ones, what are ones? Ones and... Yeah, yeah, and stand alone, lone wolves. Yeah, we're very independent, fiercely independent. And we're leaders. And leaders, leaders don't mingle.
Yeah, they lean. Yeah, that's their nature. Yeah, there is, there is that. I mean, yeah, I find myself in situations where I'm like always facilitating the conversation and facilitating the flow. I have to do your neurology. I would love for you to do my neurology. Absolutely. Yes. In fact, we incorporated that into our singles event. It went really well. Where you then joined people up by. Well, I them to do their numbers, you know, to add up their birth date and then find out what the last digit is.
Amra:
Let's do it. don't want people to hear my birthday. Okay. But we will do it. And so they all got together with their numbers and then it was just... Did I ever do this for you in the past? I don't know. I can't remember. But then again, I don't remember much.
Vicki:
I want to add them twice because sometimes my mouth is a bit off. Okay, so you are a master builder. You are a builder of empires. Ooh, I'm liking this already. Like the direction we're going. Money loves you. Money loves me? Money loves you. Okay. You're super creative, but you're also super empathic. Empathetic, empathic and compassionate. You cry at the drop of a hat. I have been there.
Mmm, attention. See, I see this here. You're very hands-on, very hands-on. Love to hug, you know, love to, like, the physical part of life, you know, food, you know, things that you can touch. You probably grew up being responsible for family, right?
And after the age of 28, guess what? You became independent. Is that when you maybe?
Amra:
The Nest? No, I actually married and left home when I was 19. You know what, I actually see that but then at 28 you probably turned a corner. I think that's when my writing dream, I think that's when I actually kind of started getting recognition and was close to signing my... contract for publishing and stuff and so that gave me a new trajectory and a new found confidence. Yeah sorry I do see that marriage would have come early but at the age of 28 you did sort of move into a whole independent sort of path an independent path. That's the writing that's where that you know did that
I don't know, there's something about when you're a writer and you sign a publishing contract and it's like you're in the club and then it's like, you know, you're like, it's just this transition that happens because it's like you're so desperately like, look at me, look at me, look at me. You saw me, you want me. And then dreams die soon after. the traditional publishing world is...
Vicki (19:54)
And then you went.
Amra (20:02)
I mean, look, you know, trying to earn a living from your creativity in general is a very hard thing. That's why you have the job, the day job. And then this is why we diversify. So we've got all the different things. But, you know, that being that teacher part is the main one in terms of the way that we approach everything. Yeah. I might add now, if I could, I'm actually writing a children's book. Are you? Tell me. Well, I won't tell you the concept of the book because it's quite original.
Vicki:
Yes. It's just a passion. always wanted it. It was on my bucket list and I said, know what time and I approached a publisher and they're in the middle of creating it. Yes. Really? been paid for all I need to do is wait for the graphic designers to create the graphics the illustrations yeah it's just a children's book it's not long it's not longer than 20 pages yeah yeah so yes and I'm really excited about it I won't say much more about it because
Yeah, it's just, it's a little bit hard to reveal something because it's such a unique, it's such a unique concept. You hold onto it then. And I just, I'm a little bit scared that someone's going to run with it. I'm the same. And beat me to it. Yeah. Yeah. I have like titles for books and I don't tell anyone until I'm actually like putting it up for pre-order because I'm like, no, no, this is something really good I came up with. We're going to make sure.
It's my first book, so I don't know. No, no, you hold onto it.
Amra:
But see, I love that where it's like this is the creative journey. You're constantly adding new strands and new, you know, new things to your identity and trying new things. I think it comes, as we have a few decades into our lives, we sort of reach this age, because I'm 48 and I can feel this letting go. of the time would be like that fear of failure but it's like at this point it's it's the fear of not trying.
Vicki:
agree with that and I say follow your bliss as long as it's interesting at the time follow that thread with all your might to the best of your ability you know if you find that there are walls out so be it you know you wait you work around them but you know if you have passion I think passion is God given yeah I think
Amra:
God or source, some people don't like the word God and I totally understand. I'm kind of moving more to the universe. Yeah, the universe. Where I'm like, I use God a little bit but I'm like, don't want to because I don't actually believe in the dogma but I do believe that there is something and there is spirituality out there.
Vicki:
So I think when you're given passion. It's your responsibility to act on it. Why wouldn't you? It's like this is like free energy. This is energy that's welled up within you from source and needs to be expressed through you. Why not go for what you want? And obviously you have to put the fear aside and all the voices in your head saying you cannot and all the conditioning of you should not. And so just go for it and be brave. I think that's one thing I can sort of attach to my character. is courage. I think I'm courageous enough to step into something completely different, know, that is new to me but is really a desire, know, there's a flame, you can feel the passion behind it. So that's something I can easily do.
Amra
I'm getting more courageous where it used to take me years to kind of act on a creative impulse and to trust in it and I would second guess and put roadblocks in my way and self-sabotage and now it's amazing how the more you do it, the more you sort of have that creative moment, release it, the more it starts happening and then the more ideas start happening and sometimes I have conversations with my husband who's the one who listens.
to be really wrong about anything. And he's like, but is this going to make money? What is the purpose of this? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I just, I woke up the idea was there. And now I feel compelled to somehow bring it to life. That's the word compelled. I feel compelled. If you can feel compelled to do something, you know, hopefully it's a good thing and not a bad thing. For the good of the world. Well I wanted to move on to carnivore diet because we were talking about this and so you came to this because you were searching for answers so what was going on?
Vicki:
Okay so I fell upon a video from Michaela Peterson who is Jordan Peterson's daughter and she did a TED talk that they didn't publish apparently because they said it was too controversial which is kind of against their whole philosophy if you really think about it because TED talks kind of bring everything onto
onto the table don't they? just bring everything in and you know even the controversial subjects anyway so they decided too controversial maybe they were going against some of the big names or the big industries right and she had all sorts of things wrong with her she had a hip replacement and an ankle replacement the age of 16 so she had rheumatoid arthritis from a very young age from age two anyway you can see her story on YouTube
I think she's done a new video on it, not the tentacle, because that's been taken down, a new one. Anyway, and I saw that and it just rang true, whatever she said just rang true to me. And I could see the truth coming out of her mouth. I thought about it for a little while and I sort of dabbled in a little carnivore and I was eating just meat.
Vicki (25:51)
and I wasn't feeling too good. And I thought, I don't think this agrees with me. But then I watched some more videos, I bought some books,
I was eating just the meat and I wasn't feeling too good. And then I watched a few more videos and they said, fat, you have to eat the fat. And I introduced butter, I introduced beef fat or lamb fat and I started eating bacon, which has a lot of fat in it. And I started feeling better and all this energy came through and I actually had a few ailments. Okay, ready? These are my ailments.
frozen shoulder for three years. Couldn't lift up my shoulders. Yes. Oestrogen going down. Right. And I had edema. had water retention in the legs. Very painful. Yeah. And then I had either arthritis in my big toe or gout. I'm not really sure which of the two it was. When it got tested they said it wasn't gout. They couldn't see anything on it but it was hurting me, my big toe on my right.
And within two weeks, my arms lifted a little higher and then by a month of being on carnival. But with the fact, so important to say that because fat is such a healer and I'm down to 59 kilos. haven't been 59 kilos since I was in my twenties. You look fabulous. I'm going to say your skin, your hair, you know, in terms of your body composition. Wonderful. Well, I lost I lost the first
12 kilos in six months without exercise. fact that fat does not make you fat. In fact, I read in those books that women over 50 need fat more than any of us. certainly do. But we're all afraid of it. you know, things that are, you all these diseases that are coming about, it's like, why, why are we getting sicker? You know, everyone has all
these vitamins and has access to doctors and health foods supposedly. Health foods, why are getting sick? Why are we getting dementia and cancer constantly? Well, I just looked into it and I'm following the right doctors, the good doctors, the doctors that will buck the system and go against the big story about how we're supposed to be low fat and high carb, right? think that's an absolute story.
Amra
Well, there's more research now coming out that women of our age in perimenopause and menopause, we are supposed to have a protein-based diet, and most of the protein comes from meats. And so that is what is better for us. So there is obviously, even in mainstream society, that sort of understanding. Could you take us through, because I'm just really curious how this works, a day and what you eat in a day?
Vicki:
I always start my day with three to four eggs, right? And I cook it in tallow. I make my own tallow. because I literally go to the butcher shop. What is tallow? Tallow is what comes out of the meat, the fat, when you cook it in the oven and all the oil, then it becomes saturated. So it goes home. So I have a bowl next to my pan and every time I make some eggs, just scoop in, and instead of butter, which I like to eat raw, I put it on top of my eggs. ⁓ So I just use
I have that and I'm not hungry for the rest of the day. could eat it.
Vicki (29:12)
I eat at seven-ish in the morning and then I'm still not hungry at three but I will eat something just so that I'm not hungry later. So I don't eat after the sun goes down. don't eat anything. In fact, I have a much better sleep if I don't. I notice that too with myself. That if I do a cut off six o'clock, I have a better sleep and also waking up is easier. The later I eat, the more sedated
I don't cook anymore, I just throw things in the oven. I used to be a pretty good cook. My mum is a cook, she's a chef for a long time. So I know about cooking and my daughter's becoming a chef, what she's studying to become a chef. So I have all these great cooks around me but I just don't need, I feel the need to, so I literally buy my rib steaks or I don't know,
all sorts of different meats. I also eat organ meats and I eat fish as well. So I stick it in a nice pot and then I put the timer on for 50 minutes or maybe an hour and a half depending on what I'm cooking. then I salt it before I put it in.
just take it out and it. it's mainly I eat beef fat, sorry, beef and beef fat. I eat a little bit of lamb. I fish, but whole fish, not fillets. I don't fry them, I just, like I said, chuck them in the oven. And I can't tell you, my palate is really sensitive now because I haven't been eating anything but meat, fish and eggs for the last three years. I haven't touched, I should say this to the audience, I haven't touched a vegetable or a piece of fruit.
for three years. Well that leads me to a slightly delicate question but I'm curious, you know we talk about you need fruits and you need veggies for fibre to work your digestive system. How does that all work? Well that's a myth, according to the doctors that I follow. And what fibre does, if you don't mind me saying, it makes your poo
have volume. So it actually makes it bigger. That's what it just makes it bigger. So that doesn't actually help it come out. you don't mind, can I say that?
Amra
Please, I'm here. I'm just so fascinated by this. also because I've been, because my daughter's having some intestinal issues and this is why we started this conversation. And so we've had to change her diet. She's eating like a protein only diet and it's helping her digestive system. And so it just turned on my head a little bit because everything that I thought she should be eating was actually making her worse with her condition and so it's really making me sort of curious about and she was the one who was actually you asked her about what happens with the digestive system because that's what's been happening you know with her so we're really like wanting to know.
Vicki:
You need to know that it's the fat that helps you go to the toilet easier if you feel as though you're constipated add more fat into your diet. Butter is a great one but butter's also good. bit of lactose so in your lactose intolerant you probably want to stay away from that. There's ghee that doesn't have...a lot of or any, I don't know, I'm not 100 % sure about ghee because it's made out of milk, but it's just the fat. So add tallow, add literal beef fat, which is what I do. I go to the butchers and I ask them to give me beef fat and they cut it up into bite-sized pieces in little bags of one kilo each and I buy them for a dollar a kilo and that sustains me like right now.
or I came to my class here at Art Therapy, I put a kilo of fat in the oven and I cooked it for an hour. And that's what I'm gonna have with my meal tonight. I've got some leftover meat and I'm gonna have a bit of fat with it. Because the meat that you buy these days is not terribly fatty because they get rid of it all. Yeah, yeah, I'm actually gonna try experimenting that for us. And the pyramid is inverted, let me just say. So the standard dietary recommendations are upside down. They're completely inverted as far as I'm concerned. So meat's at the top, so it means you need to have less of it. And then all the carbs are down the bottom, which I think is wrong. I think, well, it's proven that a body doesn't need carbs to survive and function. I'm perfectly functioning. If you see the way I run around my students in the classroom, you'd think I was a teenager because I'm 56 and I move. I just move quickly.
and I move quickly throughout my day and I really think that it's my diet that's doing that. I have all the energy, I have a great mood, my moods don't fluctuate, I used to be quite moody, you know, but now it's like I'm even, my hormones are, I used to have hot flushes, it's another thing that went away instantly, like literally overnight. As soon as I started eating fat and meat, my...My hot flushes went away.
Amra
Ah, because I've had to go on hormone replacement therapy to deal with my menopause symptoms. So all of that stuff that you were talking about, hot flushes and a frozen shoulder, that's all stuff that I had going on and that was really affecting my day to day. And then as soon as I got the hormone replacement therapy, they went and the mood, it's at the point now where my husband is like, if I...
There was a very brief period where I was sick and I forgot to put it on. And he was straight away like, put it on, put it on. so yeah, but like how does, cause like, you know, you've been doing it for three years, so you've got the proof in terms of your body and how it looks. Have you had any, like testing done to you?
Vicki:
yeah, I do bloods all the time and my bloods always come back perfect. Perfect. My vitamin D's are great. My vitamin C's are great. My vitamins, everything's great except for cholesterol. But.
The myth about cholesterol is that they wanted to bring it down. They want to bring it down. What is it now, 150? Yeah, there's something. Mine's high. Yeah, I can't remember. I'm sorry. I had my doctor call me about two years ago saying, Vicki, we need you to come in because we're really worried about your cholesterol. We need to put you on some statins.
Vicki-1 (35:18)
And I had just done some reading on statins and I basically told her to stick it up her bum. No, not in so many words, but I just told her that no thank you, I'll opt out of that thank you and I looked at what statins do. Statins are completely useless. In fact, I have a doctor now, her name is Dr. Ava Charlton.
She's a Melbourne carnival doctor and I've sent several people to her already but I don't need to, I haven't seen the doctor in three years. I don't need to see a doctor other than just get the blood tests. And they all say the same thing, we need to put you on to statins. Yeah but I'm thriving, I'm feeling amazing, look at me. Do I look sick to you? No, no. You look very, very And also, I speed read now, I had a form of dyslexia growing up.
read properly. Okay. So it's like helped your cognitive. my God. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Amra:
And some of that stuff that you were talking about in terms of earlier, now that they found out dementia is actually diabetes three. Which scared the hell out of me because I do have diabetes and I'm under medication. And so I'm like, no, no, I'm taking my medication now. I'm making sure because I'm like, wow, that's, and it's something that's in the family and stuff.
Vicki:
Do you know you can reverse your diabetes?
Amra:
Yeah, I know you are like I've done it briefly through diet in terms of Culling and you know getting wise I don't know. I'm just at the point in my life where I'm like It's defeating. I just don't have the energy to focus on that anymore I'm like, just want to eat what I want to eat when I want to eat it. That's okay. I see what can I can I just interject here? We have the slightest bit of
Vicki:
Those little greglins in your gut, want more carbs to survive. So they're beings that want to just survive. Let's call them the bad bacteria. They call out for carbs because they want to live. Whereas the good bacteria, you're starving them by eating carbs. So you're feeding these ones. every time you go to the fridge or the pantry, these ones are calling out, grab the biscuits. notice that the more carbs I eat the more I crave it. It's a bit like so I haven't had a carb in a very very long time and this lovely lady of ours downstairs she offered me a cake and ⁓ and I said no thank you I kindly declined thank you I haven't had any sugar for the last three years. And well, I have fallen off the wagon a couple of times to be honest, because I had a moment of cheesecake is my weakness. So I was at a birthday party and I just went just one bite, just one bite. But of course that one bite turned into three weeks of binge eating. Yes. Everything else. So it's a bit like when you have carbs in your diet, you're like a drug addict. Yes. Right. You cannot resist. You cannot maintain, you know, like you can't restrict your
You just cannot it's impossible is humanly impossible. You can't moderate is what I'm saying and If you have it's bit like a drug addict if you give you I'll just I'll give you just a little bit of drugs You can't get away with that. So having
Introducing just a tiny bit of carbs into my diet again is going to get me back onto the carb train and I'll be on it for weeks and weeks and weeks and who knows how long it could last. So I refuse to eat any bit of carb because it's just going to activate that bad... It does because I feel it. And then I'll be hating it more and more and it's happened a couple of times in the three years. It's happened at least two or three times where I've just fallen off the wagon and I just couldn't get back on for a long long time.
Amra:
Okay. And I should also say I do fasting. Tell me about fasting. Okay. So I've, my recent fast was 13 days. 13 days? That's right. So what do you, what do you do in those 13 days? Obviously you're drinking water.
Vicki (39:07)
I drink water. I don't drink water excessively because that once nearly put me in a coma.
Amra (39:22)
Yes. I've had that experience where I made a lasagna on a very hot day.and then drank so much water. I actually remember waking up during the night looking at my hands and going, they're very swollen and everything was blurry. I think I nearly got myself water poisoning. So anyway, drinking too much water.
Vicki:
My mum tried to warn me about drinking too much water. She heard on the news that a woman killed herself drinking too much water. I said, mum, that's ridiculous. What are you talking about? Anyway, I did it to myself. So I've been on about seven water fasts.
maybe seven or eight. So seven of those were seven days long. And then this last one was 13 days long. was over two months ago. What happens to your body? What's cause well, you lose about a kilo a day. Yeah. But that's not why you do it. It's a reset. So what happens is that the stem cells are activated. So you get rid of all the viruses and the bacteria in your body. It really is an excellent reset. It has been a lot of research about
Amra:
We watched that documentary by Chris Hemsworth and he was exploring a lot of these things, know, the water, cold water treatment, the extended fasting and yes, there's been a lot of research coming up about that.
Vicki:
I stumbled on...Upton Sinclair's book about fasting, his old school, his like in the early 19, what was it, 1920, 1930, he wrote a book about it. He actually did water fasts and I don't know why I was bored at school, I was doing a CRT job. And I thought, let me just go into...
you know, a random free e-book, you know, Guttenberg, I think it's called, you know, the free e-book. And I just fell upon the Fastie one and there it was. And I kind of went, I'm going to try this. And I love it. And apparently the, you know, you know, those, those Greek, those big billiard and Odysseus and all those, Homer wrote all those big books. They were on fast and they wrote those books, apparently. So it clears your head.
How did you feel? did it do my god, it's amazing. Blissful. So the first three days, the first three days are god awful. Right. Because you're hungry. Right?
But after the third day, you go into a blissful state. It's like everything's so beautiful. Oh my God. I can't even describe to you how blissful it feels. Number one, you have more time on your hands to do everything. And obviously the first couple of times I did the fast, I made sure that I was not working. But now, I'm okay to go to work. In fact, when I did this 13 day fast, I did a CIT job.
which is a substitute teaching job with grade ones. Now if you survived that, that is a true testament. That challenged me. Yes. challenged me. In fact, I was dead to the world after that one. Yeah. But yeah, I wouldn't extend myself to too much vigorous activity through the fast. Yeah, but definitely for all our viewers, look into it. You know, do your own research. Don't listen to me, but it's amazing.
It's amazing. The body clears and I don't get sick. I do. I was going to ask because you're like a lot of this stuff is resetting the body and improving. the body, So like you haven't had any colds or flus or anything like that. No, no, no, I do not. And if I do have a sniffle or a cold or an ache or a pain, I just go on a fast. And that clears it. Absolutely. So when you put, because they have been saying that that does reset, it cleans up all of the, when I was watching that documentary, it was saying something about
cleaning up all of the dead cells and stuff. dead cells, viruses, all the... Yeah, it starves all of them and then it like resets your body. Well sugar feeds cancer cells, you know that. Yes, yes, unfortunately I'm still addicted. But it's easy to come off that. All you really need to do is 21 days of really hard work. It's an uphill battle to fight off eating carbs, 21 days.
you've got no carbs in your diet within those 21 days. And after 21 days, it's free sailing and then you don't crave it anymore. So that's what you just need those three weeks for your body to do the reset.
Amra
like yeah I struggle with ⁓ impulse and impulses and my own I have this thing where as soon as I tell myself that I'm not eating something or something like that's all I want. It's like this oppositional thing. And then I end up being in a battle. I mean, I have done it, done, you know, food cleansers short, short term and done big. I can remember at one point my husband and I were doing the whole protein thing and cut out all the flour and we're going to the gym and doing all that. So I've done a few different things, but nothing has been.
sustainable and I'm sort of sick of the extremes one way or the other because I feel like I'm fighting so many battles to get there. But I have noticed with my daughter where we've been doing this restrictive diet and the protein diet it has been positive for us both. Well finally my daughter also has a gut issue. She's been in and out of hospital for the last three years and
Vicki:
Doctors don't admit that diet has every relationship to the gut, to her condition. They don't admit it. In fact, if you ask a doctor how many...days or hours of nutrition, education in nutrition they have, they will give you something like 20 hours or a day. Just like menopause. They have 20 hours of training in menopause and yet 50 % of the population will go through menopause and then they tag, as I was listening to this woman who was a doctor, she's like, you know, they call them wingy women. They're in their 40s, they're in their 50s, they're coming in with all these ailments, the testing's not revealing anything, it was just a problem.
Amra:
And that's the thing, so it's like yeah, and even with what my daughter's going through, to a naturopath. And the naturopath, and that was on the recommendation of someone who's also had a lot of digestive issues and food issues, and it was the naturopath was able to guide us in terms of the diet. And it was just fascinating to me where I'm like, everything I was telling her to eat was what was making her worse. everything that I thought that was good for them was actually creating more of an issue and now where we've gone just to the protein and restricted vegetables.
Vicki:
You know, I wish I could rewind my life and I wish I could feed my children a carnival diet from scratch. I would have had such... I don't know, my... kids are already great. mean, my son, he's an absolute genius, but I just feel as though I would have done them a better service as a mother not to introduce to them. Now, first of all, all vegetables.
have pesticides in them. No matter how much you wash them, there are pesticides. mean, have you seen this? Have you heard of what sprays they spray on these fields? Well, it's big, it's massive and they do go into your system. And not only that, the oxalates in the vegetables, oxalates. I mean, there's a YouTube video called Plants Are Trying To Kill You. Plants Are Trying To Kill You. It's a YouTube video, it's very popular.
millions of views and basically it says that vegetables have oxalates which are their defense mechanism. They're like little shards of glass. think of know spinach when you get that that dry film on your teeth when you eat spinach. you know that? I don't eat enough spinach. But I'm just saying like anyway so vegetables have all the wrong things for the gut.
The has four different stomachs. The cow eats grass, it eats vegetation, eats, let's just call it plants. So it goes through the process, the plants go through the process of digestion because that's what a cow does in order for us to then eat the cow to gain from the nutrients, the gain that the cow got from those nutrients. So we don't really need to eat because we don't have four stomachs, we have one.
Amra
So you're saying in a sense like the if you're eating the protein meat as protein That's where all of those other nutrients also come into it because the animals are actually eating all of those things and digesting them. That's one of the arguments that this gentleman, Anthony Chaffey talks about when he says plants are trying to kill you. It's amazing. It's really quite fascinating. I'm very passionate about carnivore because I've seen it with my own eyes.
Vicki:
Yeah, first hand and I just have so much to say about this one really it's changed my life around it's improved my life a thousandfold I just I just love everything about my life right now. Well, you're the first person I've met in the carnival I've got a friend who's a weight trainer and is very specific in her diet and it is protein three meals a day but with vegetables and she'll
Keto, doing the keto. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. It's basically like every meal is, you know, meat and certain types of veggies and it's very plain but it's she actually weighs and wedges. And then she does the weight training and her health outcomes are really, really great. The only thing that she's battling at the moment because of the joys of perimenopause and periods is...
Iron depletion But yeah, like she she has Really like improved her mood and improved her sort of quality of life through that I think everyone is expected to do a complete turnaround in their lives. Anyway, so I was a vegetarian for
Seven years, before I came to Australia seven years ago. And then, I was staying with my mum for a period, and she was the designated cook, and she would cook with me. And then I started eating meat. Of course, I became a carnivore three years ago. But...
about your friend, she's going through, did you say the peri, what did you say? She's my age, the perimenopause. So if she eats fat, because you said she eats protein. Yeah. And I'm guessing that she's cutting off all the fat and eating just the protein. She's not getting enough fat. If you eat enough fat, and I eat a good handful of fat, that's beef fat. I only choose beef fat. don't do pork fat because pork's a dirty animal, I feel. They eat everything, even their own.
They're own kind. They're own poop. They won't eat anything. Whereas cows, they eat only grass. You can't put poo in front of a cow and they'll eat it. They just can't. And same with lamb. They just eat.
grass and so they're ruminant animals is what you really want that's the cleanest meat. Yeah. And I don't go for organic. I can't afford organic meat. So I just buy the supermarket, just regular supermarket meat. And I don't eat anything else. And a lot of people say it's not expensive. No, it's not when you're not buying anything else. don't have cereals. I don't have tomato sauces and desserts. And I don't have breads and pastas and sauces. And I just don't eat anything. I have a good salt. Yeah.
like a good salt and and beef lamb sometimes every now and again I have some bacon I can have a little unpasteurized cheese as well but not too much because that's also it's it's
It's got additives and stuff in it I suppose, yeah. How would you, because you were a vegetarian for seven years and then started eating meat and everything and then carnivore. Carnivore. So how would you, like you're like your own science experiment. I know. What, how felt, how was feeling? How would you? Well I was very moody as a vegetarian. Yeah. My god, very moody up and down. My periods were so painful and just um.
My husband at the time, he was like, what is wrong with you? I didn't know I was vegetarian. There is that joke where like, peer pressure, when it comes to vegetarianism and veganism, peer pressure doesn't work, but it works with everything else because it's the fun stuff.
Amra
Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing so many things and I'll try and collect to all the stuff that you've been talking about. But a great place for people to start their own journey and just to see what lessons they can get from here. I'm gonna start looking a little bit more at the fact, I have to say. That has resonated for me very much. So thank you so much, Vicki. Thank you, Emma. Thank you for having me. Thank you, everyone.
Thank you for tuning in to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe and follow for more insights, stories and inspiration. From my armchair to yours, remember, every story begins with a single word.
Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. I'm Amra Pajalic, writer, teacher and storyteller. Pull up a chair and let's dive into stories about writing, life and lessons learned, sharing wisdom from my armchair to yours. You can find the episode show notes, your free episode handouts and my how-to guides at amrapajalic.com slash podcast.
Now it's time to dive in.
Welcome to Amorizam Chair Anecdotes. I have got Vicky Stergiannis. She's spent the past 30 years in education. She's trained in fine art at Monash and completed her diploma of education at the University of Melbourne. And now she took an unexpected leap that sent her to Europe for 23 years where she taught English and immersed herself in cross-cultural classrooms. Since returning to Australia, she's taught English and art across schools, adult education, programs, community organizations, and now she's expanded her practice with a diploma in mental health and works as an art therapist in the Melton area, blending psychology, creativity and symbolism to support her clients. She's also a working artist, takes commissions, she runs workshops, she teaches everything from acrylic florals to watercolor and sacred geometry.
And she just brings her warmth, fire and her big creative heart to every space she's steps into, keeps things interesting. And she's also a proud carnivore and we're going to be talking about the carnival lifestyle and digging into that. So thank you so much for coming on my podcast. It's an absolute pleasure. Yes, and just the opportunity to, I love it. I'm loving this opportunity to talk to interesting people. And our paths have crossed a few times over the years. And we were just having a conversation about the universe kind of, you know, giving us these invitations and learning. from the universe. So I'm really excited to sort of have the opportunity to talk with you more about that too because you're very much a believer in that too.
Vicki:
Well I think that when we start off we think we can control everything. We're very adamant that this is how it needs to be. We take the path and we charge ahead. It's very much a left brain style thinking and it's a masculine. is I will forge the way. Whereas, you know, having a dance with the universe is really you...being receptive to what the universe brings to you. It's a dance. It's a beautiful dance, isn't it? When you kick back and allow things to just unfold is so much easier than charging ahead in this way. So that's something I've learned in my 56 years of life. Well, that's what I feel like I'm doing. Actually, I'd like to start there. Can you give us examples of your dance with the universe and how that's developed for you?
You know when you try too hard and then nothing comes of it. Yes, I do. And something within you breaks and you release all expectation, you release all effort. Yes. And then suddenly something grows from that. You know, it just unfolds naturally. It's like, I feel a flame. I feel something interesting rising within me. I want to chase something different now. And I guess, I guess when you release any sense of control things like that just appear in your life and it's it's such a beautiful surprise.
Vicki (03:47)
Yeah well that's what I feel like I'm doing now I'm sort of accepting the invitations that are put forward to me. You asked me about examples okay so so about a while ago I was employed as an teacher at a primary school.
And because I didn't have the experience as an art teacher, I'd had experience as an EAL teacher. And so they took me on because their art teacher had left suddenly, so they needed someone desperately within the year. It was the end of the term, term one. So not many people available. Most people who work as art teachers, they start from the beginning of the year. Anyway, so I was there and I took on the job. And of course they thought I was a little bit green. They didn't keep me on and I did everything in my power to be liked and to do the right thing and just hit my head above it.
They gave me such a load, especially for an inexperienced arts teacher, even though I did study art, I just wasn't experienced in the ways of the sec primary school system. And you know, there are certain protocols and just certain way anyway. So I just wasn't up to par according to them. And they let me go. They didn't employ me again for the next year. And I just released everything I was, I could have fallen into depression and maybe some people would consider depression but I don't think it was it was just me releasing it was like okay I'm not gonna try anymore I'm definitely not not gonna and and then everything came came to me I discovered mandalas I started a career you know like a long stint of Mandela making. It was just an amazing experience for about two, three years. I just made Mandelas. I've sold some work and it was just a great little journey. And then a therapy came along and then certain people came along and I just, that's the dance I'm talking about. When you release that wanting something, needing something, feeling like you need something.
Amra:
Yeah, I feel like there is that process of letting go because I'm a person who has a lot of ambition and is very goal orientated. But what I've learned is to set the goals for myself in terms of production or doing, but to remove the performative aspect. I can control writing as to how much I write or what I work on. I can't control once I put that out there, what will happen with it? Will it be a success or not?
So it's about setting those goals for yourself and then just seeing what happens. And I think that's the beautiful part because sometimes when you're very much about that performative external validation.
That's when I think the art falls down. Oh yeah, you completely destroy the creative process. You're not doing it from your heart. It's not genuine, it's not authentic, it's not coming out in a genuinely and authentically creative way. So you're thinking about the end result. So that's where I'm at now. It's got to come from the heart, which kind of brings me to my new project. Tell us! The Cosmic Club. Yes!
Vicki:
So my sister and I, my sister's recently single and I've been single for a good seven, eight years. you know, we were always looking out for places to go and meet people, just meet people, nothing, you know, nothing...more than just having a conversation, a real authentic conversation without the sleaze, without the romantic connotations, just meeting people, know, men and women. And at the bars we'd visit, they were too loud, too sleazy, just, you know, there was just too much emphasis on those things and we just kind of fed up. And then we decided, you know what, why don't we just go to a speed dating event and see what happens, you know, because apparently they slow down and you have compensations, we didn't know. And then we kind of just jumped fast forward and said, why don't we make our own speed dating app? And things just lit up for me. And so this is my new passion. mean, other than art therapy, and I still teach English and do art therapy, but this is the most recent passion of mine. yeah, so we had our second free function event yesterday, just yesterday, the seventh of...
December 2025, we'll listen to it later later. We've got excellent feedback. So what I do is I bring art therapy into this speed dating space. We talk about authentic subjects. I create games which takes off the focus of the person. So they make medallas in groups. I group them according to their numerology. I group them according to their favourite colour for example and that way they have something in common to talk about. It's just amazing. There are so many, I've got like 60 different activities on my belt you know so I'm really excited to create new content you know brand new content every time we have an event. And to not make it the same. But also I'm just I'm listening to this I'm like this is the teacher thing. Yes.
Amra (08:57)
You know when you are a teacher and you're delivering workshops and you're working with people you're always checking energy for figuring out energy, developing things, coming up with ideas. So this is like all those decades of the teaching. You know, and then the art therapy where you've really been looking at that mental health space and that supporting and how you create those connections. I really wanted to explore more the Mandela aspect. So can you tell us for people who don't know, what are Mandelas? How do they work?
Vicki:
So Mandelas were used by Carl Jung, the psychiatrist. with his psychiatric patients. And he felt that when they were ready to realign or defragment, because they will come to him fragmented, and when they were ready to unify their personalities or their souls, they started creating circles. And he sort of looked into it. And people that are ready,
to become whole again. create circles and so he looked into it. He's written a whole book on Mandela's. So anyway, I looked into it and of course Mandela is...evident in all art therapy spaces and especially because I had a background in Mandela before I started art therapy. Well actually no, just after. And I find that it's one of my most popular activities in the art therapy space and people love it. They take it home and they do the activity again and again at home in their own time.
They find that it just soothes them. It brings concepts like perfection, completeness, unity, a sense of community into their field. It's just amazing. I mean, I've got about five or six different styles of Mandela that they can try. Whether it's doing it with a compass or with objects or stamps or nature Mandela. So I have all these different styles that they can use the concept of Mandela with.
Yeah. Is this what you're doing with your workshops? Because you run workshops at the Hand Club, is where we're recording this podcast. So this is something you run.
I believe it's the 16th. Yeah we start on the 16th of February. Okay yeah I love the sound of that because I don't consider myself an artistic person but
As I've delved into this world of being an independent author, I've had to get creative in terms of creating covers and graphics and all of this. And I'm just addicted. Like whenever I'm feeling a little bit, you know, full in the head or just needing to quieten things down, I just, I literally sit down and do my Carver graphics just as a self-soothing fun thing. What is that exactly? Carver. So it's this program that you use to create digital.
Yeah, digital assets and stuff. like, yeah, so I'm starting to really, I feel like there is a bit of an artistic, something is awakening in me where I'm wanting to explore more art for myself.
The great thing about mandalas, I should probably add, is that you don't have to be a professional skilled artist. You don't have to be able to draw a horse per se. You can be creative in just plonking down shapes in a circular fashion, in a certain order, in a certain pattern. And that's all you really need to do in mandala work. And that's where your creativity really shines. Whereas skills, are a whole other ball game. I'm also an art teacher. I can teach you skills but not everyone's there for skill learning. No.
Amra
Yeah and I can see, see because I started down...meetings, school meetings, get me stressed sometimes and get me a little bit. And so I started doing things like taking and colouring activities as a self-soothing to just, you know, give me something to distract. That's a brilliant idea. Well, yeah, because I mean, you've been in the education sector and there is just so much repetition.and it just becomes like deja vu.
you've lived so many creative lives. You know, you're artist, teacher, therapist. What do you actually, what do you tell people that you actually do? And what's the greatest lesson in terms of that you've learned in your creative journey?
Vicki:
Well, I know essentially that I'm a teacher and an inspirer. I think I've come to terms with this role and I wholeheartedly step into that role when I'm...
So I do like to lead a group of people. I do it confidently and with conviction and creativity and intuition as well. I always have backup plans. I read the room as you say. Yeah,
I guess another thing that I have learnt is that I really want to keep it fresh and constantly create new material for my students. And I must say, my students come to class and they get excited, whether it's an English class or an art class, they get excited because I'm constantly changing things up or giving them unexpected activity. and moving the class in a way that I think is going to challenge them, excite them. There's never a complaint of boredom. And I have students, especially where I work at Geri Warrra, I have students that repeat the same class.
Like I have this one girl, my beautiful student, and she's been in the same class, which is the same level, term after term for the last two and a half years. So she keeps coming. It's like you have to try something better, you know, like more advanced. I mean, you've been in this level, level one, because I do. beginner to, I just do beginner classes basically. And she just keeps coming back. And she's learning. but she just loves the class. loves the energy. And I don't think that that's what people who are not teachers, they don't realise how much of ourselves we put in there. Like it's not the subject. It's not like, you know, we do teach certain things like with passion, if you know, we're passionate about it.
Amra:
But when you're a teacher, you like really carry the room and you bring so much of yourself. And that's why we're so exhausted. You know, after the day is done. after the session is done because we do bring everything and I'm more on the extrovert, you know, end of it. However, after, you know, 12 going on 13 years of teaching in high school, I'm starting to go a little bit more in the introvert because it's like I need that quiet space. need, and so I actually, have, you know, lots of friends that are really life and great community but...
I'm really content with spending time by myself and occupying myself. And before I used to be always like looking for someone to fill the time, someone to do things with. Whereas now I'm very content to just do that. So I just wanted to pick up on what you were talking about in terms of early, in terms of lonely. Like, is that also something that comes into it in terms of the energy that you're expending and then just needing?
Vicki:
that quiet time? I never feel lonely. Never. I always have something to do, something to fill my time with. I'm, I guess that was the wrong word, it's not lonely, but I just don't have that many people around me, you know, like I don't have, you know.
50 different friends. I don't. I have a good three very close friends that happen to be two live overseas and one lives interstate. So they're not close to me, which is fine. You know, we chat on the phone when we need to and then I have my sister who's my best friend. But yeah, I know that I just don't.
Amra (16:54)
I don't what it is, it's my personality. don't know you know anything about numerology but I'm a one. okay, so tell me about that. What? Ones, what are ones? Ones and... Yeah, yeah, and stand alone, lone wolves. Yeah, we're very independent, fiercely independent. And we're leaders. And leaders, leaders don't mingle.
Yeah, they lean. Yeah, that's their nature. Yeah, there is, there is that. I mean, yeah, I find myself in situations where I'm like always facilitating the conversation and facilitating the flow. I have to do your neurology. I would love for you to do my neurology. Absolutely. Yes. In fact, we incorporated that into our singles event. It went really well. Where you then joined people up by. Well, I them to do their numbers, you know, to add up their birth date and then find out what the last digit is.
Amra:
Let's do it. don't want people to hear my birthday. Okay. But we will do it. And so they all got together with their numbers and then it was just... Did I ever do this for you in the past? I don't know. I can't remember. But then again, I don't remember much.
Vicki:
I want to add them twice because sometimes my mouth is a bit off. Okay, so you are a master builder. You are a builder of empires. Ooh, I'm liking this already. Like the direction we're going. Money loves you. Money loves me? Money loves you. Okay. You're super creative, but you're also super empathic. Empathetic, empathic and compassionate. You cry at the drop of a hat. I have been there.
Mmm, attention. See, I see this here. You're very hands-on, very hands-on. Love to hug, you know, love to, like, the physical part of life, you know, food, you know, things that you can touch. You probably grew up being responsible for family, right?
And after the age of 28, guess what? You became independent. Is that when you maybe?
Amra:
The Nest? No, I actually married and left home when I was 19. You know what, I actually see that but then at 28 you probably turned a corner. I think that's when my writing dream, I think that's when I actually kind of started getting recognition and was close to signing my... contract for publishing and stuff and so that gave me a new trajectory and a new found confidence. Yeah sorry I do see that marriage would have come early but at the age of 28 you did sort of move into a whole independent sort of path an independent path. That's the writing that's where that you know did that
I don't know, there's something about when you're a writer and you sign a publishing contract and it's like you're in the club and then it's like, you know, you're like, it's just this transition that happens because it's like you're so desperately like, look at me, look at me, look at me. You saw me, you want me. And then dreams die soon after. the traditional publishing world is...
Vicki (19:54)
And then you went.
Amra (20:02)
I mean, look, you know, trying to earn a living from your creativity in general is a very hard thing. That's why you have the job, the day job. And then this is why we diversify. So we've got all the different things. But, you know, that being that teacher part is the main one in terms of the way that we approach everything. Yeah. I might add now, if I could, I'm actually writing a children's book. Are you? Tell me. Well, I won't tell you the concept of the book because it's quite original.
Vicki:
Yes. It's just a passion. always wanted it. It was on my bucket list and I said, know what time and I approached a publisher and they're in the middle of creating it. Yes. Really? been paid for all I need to do is wait for the graphic designers to create the graphics the illustrations yeah it's just a children's book it's not long it's not longer than 20 pages yeah yeah so yes and I'm really excited about it I won't say much more about it because
Yeah, it's just, it's a little bit hard to reveal something because it's such a unique, it's such a unique concept. You hold onto it then. And I just, I'm a little bit scared that someone's going to run with it. I'm the same. And beat me to it. Yeah. Yeah. I have like titles for books and I don't tell anyone until I'm actually like putting it up for pre-order because I'm like, no, no, this is something really good I came up with. We're going to make sure.
It's my first book, so I don't know. No, no, you hold onto it.
Amra:
But see, I love that where it's like this is the creative journey. You're constantly adding new strands and new, you know, new things to your identity and trying new things. I think it comes, as we have a few decades into our lives, we sort of reach this age, because I'm 48 and I can feel this letting go. of the time would be like that fear of failure but it's like at this point it's it's the fear of not trying.
Vicki:
agree with that and I say follow your bliss as long as it's interesting at the time follow that thread with all your might to the best of your ability you know if you find that there are walls out so be it you know you wait you work around them but you know if you have passion I think passion is God given yeah I think
Amra:
God or source, some people don't like the word God and I totally understand. I'm kind of moving more to the universe. Yeah, the universe. Where I'm like, I use God a little bit but I'm like, don't want to because I don't actually believe in the dogma but I do believe that there is something and there is spirituality out there.
Vicki:
So I think when you're given passion. It's your responsibility to act on it. Why wouldn't you? It's like this is like free energy. This is energy that's welled up within you from source and needs to be expressed through you. Why not go for what you want? And obviously you have to put the fear aside and all the voices in your head saying you cannot and all the conditioning of you should not. And so just go for it and be brave. I think that's one thing I can sort of attach to my character. is courage. I think I'm courageous enough to step into something completely different, know, that is new to me but is really a desire, know, there's a flame, you can feel the passion behind it. So that's something I can easily do.
Amra
I'm getting more courageous where it used to take me years to kind of act on a creative impulse and to trust in it and I would second guess and put roadblocks in my way and self-sabotage and now it's amazing how the more you do it, the more you sort of have that creative moment, release it, the more it starts happening and then the more ideas start happening and sometimes I have conversations with my husband who's the one who listens.
to be really wrong about anything. And he's like, but is this going to make money? What is the purpose of this? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I just, I woke up the idea was there. And now I feel compelled to somehow bring it to life. That's the word compelled. I feel compelled. If you can feel compelled to do something, you know, hopefully it's a good thing and not a bad thing. For the good of the world. Well I wanted to move on to carnivore diet because we were talking about this and so you came to this because you were searching for answers so what was going on?
Vicki:
Okay so I fell upon a video from Michaela Peterson who is Jordan Peterson's daughter and she did a TED talk that they didn't publish apparently because they said it was too controversial which is kind of against their whole philosophy if you really think about it because TED talks kind of bring everything onto
onto the table don't they? just bring everything in and you know even the controversial subjects anyway so they decided too controversial maybe they were going against some of the big names or the big industries right and she had all sorts of things wrong with her she had a hip replacement and an ankle replacement the age of 16 so she had rheumatoid arthritis from a very young age from age two anyway you can see her story on YouTube
I think she's done a new video on it, not the tentacle, because that's been taken down, a new one. Anyway, and I saw that and it just rang true, whatever she said just rang true to me. And I could see the truth coming out of her mouth. I thought about it for a little while and I sort of dabbled in a little carnivore and I was eating just meat.
Vicki (25:51)
and I wasn't feeling too good. And I thought, I don't think this agrees with me. But then I watched some more videos, I bought some books,
I was eating just the meat and I wasn't feeling too good. And then I watched a few more videos and they said, fat, you have to eat the fat. And I introduced butter, I introduced beef fat or lamb fat and I started eating bacon, which has a lot of fat in it. And I started feeling better and all this energy came through and I actually had a few ailments. Okay, ready? These are my ailments.
frozen shoulder for three years. Couldn't lift up my shoulders. Yes. Oestrogen going down. Right. And I had edema. had water retention in the legs. Very painful. Yeah. And then I had either arthritis in my big toe or gout. I'm not really sure which of the two it was. When it got tested they said it wasn't gout. They couldn't see anything on it but it was hurting me, my big toe on my right.
And within two weeks, my arms lifted a little higher and then by a month of being on carnival. But with the fact, so important to say that because fat is such a healer and I'm down to 59 kilos. haven't been 59 kilos since I was in my twenties. You look fabulous. I'm going to say your skin, your hair, you know, in terms of your body composition. Wonderful. Well, I lost I lost the first
12 kilos in six months without exercise. fact that fat does not make you fat. In fact, I read in those books that women over 50 need fat more than any of us. certainly do. But we're all afraid of it. you know, things that are, you all these diseases that are coming about, it's like, why, why are we getting sicker? You know, everyone has all
these vitamins and has access to doctors and health foods supposedly. Health foods, why are getting sick? Why are we getting dementia and cancer constantly? Well, I just looked into it and I'm following the right doctors, the good doctors, the doctors that will buck the system and go against the big story about how we're supposed to be low fat and high carb, right? think that's an absolute story.
Amra
Well, there's more research now coming out that women of our age in perimenopause and menopause, we are supposed to have a protein-based diet, and most of the protein comes from meats. And so that is what is better for us. So there is obviously, even in mainstream society, that sort of understanding. Could you take us through, because I'm just really curious how this works, a day and what you eat in a day?
Vicki:
I always start my day with three to four eggs, right? And I cook it in tallow. I make my own tallow. because I literally go to the butcher shop. What is tallow? Tallow is what comes out of the meat, the fat, when you cook it in the oven and all the oil, then it becomes saturated. So it goes home. So I have a bowl next to my pan and every time I make some eggs, just scoop in, and instead of butter, which I like to eat raw, I put it on top of my eggs. ⁓ So I just use
I have that and I'm not hungry for the rest of the day. could eat it.
Vicki (29:12)
I eat at seven-ish in the morning and then I'm still not hungry at three but I will eat something just so that I'm not hungry later. So I don't eat after the sun goes down. don't eat anything. In fact, I have a much better sleep if I don't. I notice that too with myself. That if I do a cut off six o'clock, I have a better sleep and also waking up is easier. The later I eat, the more sedated
I don't cook anymore, I just throw things in the oven. I used to be a pretty good cook. My mum is a cook, she's a chef for a long time. So I know about cooking and my daughter's becoming a chef, what she's studying to become a chef. So I have all these great cooks around me but I just don't need, I feel the need to, so I literally buy my rib steaks or I don't know,
all sorts of different meats. I also eat organ meats and I eat fish as well. So I stick it in a nice pot and then I put the timer on for 50 minutes or maybe an hour and a half depending on what I'm cooking. then I salt it before I put it in.
just take it out and it. it's mainly I eat beef fat, sorry, beef and beef fat. I eat a little bit of lamb. I fish, but whole fish, not fillets. I don't fry them, I just, like I said, chuck them in the oven. And I can't tell you, my palate is really sensitive now because I haven't been eating anything but meat, fish and eggs for the last three years. I haven't touched, I should say this to the audience, I haven't touched a vegetable or a piece of fruit.
for three years. Well that leads me to a slightly delicate question but I'm curious, you know we talk about you need fruits and you need veggies for fibre to work your digestive system. How does that all work? Well that's a myth, according to the doctors that I follow. And what fibre does, if you don't mind me saying, it makes your poo
have volume. So it actually makes it bigger. That's what it just makes it bigger. So that doesn't actually help it come out. you don't mind, can I say that?
Amra
Please, I'm here. I'm just so fascinated by this. also because I've been, because my daughter's having some intestinal issues and this is why we started this conversation. And so we've had to change her diet. She's eating like a protein only diet and it's helping her digestive system. And so it just turned on my head a little bit because everything that I thought she should be eating was actually making her worse with her condition and so it's really making me sort of curious about and she was the one who was actually you asked her about what happens with the digestive system because that's what's been happening you know with her so we're really like wanting to know.
Vicki:
You need to know that it's the fat that helps you go to the toilet easier if you feel as though you're constipated add more fat into your diet. Butter is a great one but butter's also good. bit of lactose so in your lactose intolerant you probably want to stay away from that. There's ghee that doesn't have...a lot of or any, I don't know, I'm not 100 % sure about ghee because it's made out of milk, but it's just the fat. So add tallow, add literal beef fat, which is what I do. I go to the butchers and I ask them to give me beef fat and they cut it up into bite-sized pieces in little bags of one kilo each and I buy them for a dollar a kilo and that sustains me like right now.
or I came to my class here at Art Therapy, I put a kilo of fat in the oven and I cooked it for an hour. And that's what I'm gonna have with my meal tonight. I've got some leftover meat and I'm gonna have a bit of fat with it. Because the meat that you buy these days is not terribly fatty because they get rid of it all. Yeah, yeah, I'm actually gonna try experimenting that for us. And the pyramid is inverted, let me just say. So the standard dietary recommendations are upside down. They're completely inverted as far as I'm concerned. So meat's at the top, so it means you need to have less of it. And then all the carbs are down the bottom, which I think is wrong. I think, well, it's proven that a body doesn't need carbs to survive and function. I'm perfectly functioning. If you see the way I run around my students in the classroom, you'd think I was a teenager because I'm 56 and I move. I just move quickly.
and I move quickly throughout my day and I really think that it's my diet that's doing that. I have all the energy, I have a great mood, my moods don't fluctuate, I used to be quite moody, you know, but now it's like I'm even, my hormones are, I used to have hot flushes, it's another thing that went away instantly, like literally overnight. As soon as I started eating fat and meat, my...My hot flushes went away.
Amra
Ah, because I've had to go on hormone replacement therapy to deal with my menopause symptoms. So all of that stuff that you were talking about, hot flushes and a frozen shoulder, that's all stuff that I had going on and that was really affecting my day to day. And then as soon as I got the hormone replacement therapy, they went and the mood, it's at the point now where my husband is like, if I...
There was a very brief period where I was sick and I forgot to put it on. And he was straight away like, put it on, put it on. so yeah, but like how does, cause like, you know, you've been doing it for three years, so you've got the proof in terms of your body and how it looks. Have you had any, like testing done to you?
Vicki:
yeah, I do bloods all the time and my bloods always come back perfect. Perfect. My vitamin D's are great. My vitamin C's are great. My vitamins, everything's great except for cholesterol. But.
The myth about cholesterol is that they wanted to bring it down. They want to bring it down. What is it now, 150? Yeah, there's something. Mine's high. Yeah, I can't remember. I'm sorry. I had my doctor call me about two years ago saying, Vicki, we need you to come in because we're really worried about your cholesterol. We need to put you on some statins.
Vicki-1 (35:18)
And I had just done some reading on statins and I basically told her to stick it up her bum. No, not in so many words, but I just told her that no thank you, I'll opt out of that thank you and I looked at what statins do. Statins are completely useless. In fact, I have a doctor now, her name is Dr. Ava Charlton.
She's a Melbourne carnival doctor and I've sent several people to her already but I don't need to, I haven't seen the doctor in three years. I don't need to see a doctor other than just get the blood tests. And they all say the same thing, we need to put you on to statins. Yeah but I'm thriving, I'm feeling amazing, look at me. Do I look sick to you? No, no. You look very, very And also, I speed read now, I had a form of dyslexia growing up.
read properly. Okay. So it's like helped your cognitive. my God. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Amra:
And some of that stuff that you were talking about in terms of earlier, now that they found out dementia is actually diabetes three. Which scared the hell out of me because I do have diabetes and I'm under medication. And so I'm like, no, no, I'm taking my medication now. I'm making sure because I'm like, wow, that's, and it's something that's in the family and stuff.
Vicki:
Do you know you can reverse your diabetes?
Amra:
Yeah, I know you are like I've done it briefly through diet in terms of Culling and you know getting wise I don't know. I'm just at the point in my life where I'm like It's defeating. I just don't have the energy to focus on that anymore I'm like, just want to eat what I want to eat when I want to eat it. That's okay. I see what can I can I just interject here? We have the slightest bit of
Vicki:
Those little greglins in your gut, want more carbs to survive. So they're beings that want to just survive. Let's call them the bad bacteria. They call out for carbs because they want to live. Whereas the good bacteria, you're starving them by eating carbs. So you're feeding these ones. every time you go to the fridge or the pantry, these ones are calling out, grab the biscuits. notice that the more carbs I eat the more I crave it. It's a bit like so I haven't had a carb in a very very long time and this lovely lady of ours downstairs she offered me a cake and ⁓ and I said no thank you I kindly declined thank you I haven't had any sugar for the last three years. And well, I have fallen off the wagon a couple of times to be honest, because I had a moment of cheesecake is my weakness. So I was at a birthday party and I just went just one bite, just one bite. But of course that one bite turned into three weeks of binge eating. Yes. Everything else. So it's a bit like when you have carbs in your diet, you're like a drug addict. Yes. Right. You cannot resist. You cannot maintain, you know, like you can't restrict your
You just cannot it's impossible is humanly impossible. You can't moderate is what I'm saying and If you have it's bit like a drug addict if you give you I'll just I'll give you just a little bit of drugs You can't get away with that. So having
Introducing just a tiny bit of carbs into my diet again is going to get me back onto the carb train and I'll be on it for weeks and weeks and weeks and who knows how long it could last. So I refuse to eat any bit of carb because it's just going to activate that bad... It does because I feel it. And then I'll be hating it more and more and it's happened a couple of times in the three years. It's happened at least two or three times where I've just fallen off the wagon and I just couldn't get back on for a long long time.
Amra:
Okay. And I should also say I do fasting. Tell me about fasting. Okay. So I've, my recent fast was 13 days. 13 days? That's right. So what do you, what do you do in those 13 days? Obviously you're drinking water.
Vicki (39:07)
I drink water. I don't drink water excessively because that once nearly put me in a coma.
Amra (39:22)
Yes. I've had that experience where I made a lasagna on a very hot day.and then drank so much water. I actually remember waking up during the night looking at my hands and going, they're very swollen and everything was blurry. I think I nearly got myself water poisoning. So anyway, drinking too much water.
Vicki:
My mum tried to warn me about drinking too much water. She heard on the news that a woman killed herself drinking too much water. I said, mum, that's ridiculous. What are you talking about? Anyway, I did it to myself. So I've been on about seven water fasts.
maybe seven or eight. So seven of those were seven days long. And then this last one was 13 days long. was over two months ago. What happens to your body? What's cause well, you lose about a kilo a day. Yeah. But that's not why you do it. It's a reset. So what happens is that the stem cells are activated. So you get rid of all the viruses and the bacteria in your body. It really is an excellent reset. It has been a lot of research about
Amra:
We watched that documentary by Chris Hemsworth and he was exploring a lot of these things, know, the water, cold water treatment, the extended fasting and yes, there's been a lot of research coming up about that.
Vicki:
I stumbled on...Upton Sinclair's book about fasting, his old school, his like in the early 19, what was it, 1920, 1930, he wrote a book about it. He actually did water fasts and I don't know why I was bored at school, I was doing a CRT job. And I thought, let me just go into...
you know, a random free e-book, you know, Guttenberg, I think it's called, you know, the free e-book. And I just fell upon the Fastie one and there it was. And I kind of went, I'm going to try this. And I love it. And apparently the, you know, you know, those, those Greek, those big billiard and Odysseus and all those, Homer wrote all those big books. They were on fast and they wrote those books, apparently. So it clears your head.
How did you feel? did it do my god, it's amazing. Blissful. So the first three days, the first three days are god awful. Right. Because you're hungry. Right?
But after the third day, you go into a blissful state. It's like everything's so beautiful. Oh my God. I can't even describe to you how blissful it feels. Number one, you have more time on your hands to do everything. And obviously the first couple of times I did the fast, I made sure that I was not working. But now, I'm okay to go to work. In fact, when I did this 13 day fast, I did a CIT job.
which is a substitute teaching job with grade ones. Now if you survived that, that is a true testament. That challenged me. Yes. challenged me. In fact, I was dead to the world after that one. Yeah. But yeah, I wouldn't extend myself to too much vigorous activity through the fast. Yeah, but definitely for all our viewers, look into it. You know, do your own research. Don't listen to me, but it's amazing.
It's amazing. The body clears and I don't get sick. I do. I was going to ask because you're like a lot of this stuff is resetting the body and improving. the body, So like you haven't had any colds or flus or anything like that. No, no, no, I do not. And if I do have a sniffle or a cold or an ache or a pain, I just go on a fast. And that clears it. Absolutely. So when you put, because they have been saying that that does reset, it cleans up all of the, when I was watching that documentary, it was saying something about
cleaning up all of the dead cells and stuff. dead cells, viruses, all the... Yeah, it starves all of them and then it like resets your body. Well sugar feeds cancer cells, you know that. Yes, yes, unfortunately I'm still addicted. But it's easy to come off that. All you really need to do is 21 days of really hard work. It's an uphill battle to fight off eating carbs, 21 days.
you've got no carbs in your diet within those 21 days. And after 21 days, it's free sailing and then you don't crave it anymore. So that's what you just need those three weeks for your body to do the reset.
Amra
like yeah I struggle with ⁓ impulse and impulses and my own I have this thing where as soon as I tell myself that I'm not eating something or something like that's all I want. It's like this oppositional thing. And then I end up being in a battle. I mean, I have done it, done, you know, food cleansers short, short term and done big. I can remember at one point my husband and I were doing the whole protein thing and cut out all the flour and we're going to the gym and doing all that. So I've done a few different things, but nothing has been.
sustainable and I'm sort of sick of the extremes one way or the other because I feel like I'm fighting so many battles to get there. But I have noticed with my daughter where we've been doing this restrictive diet and the protein diet it has been positive for us both. Well finally my daughter also has a gut issue. She's been in and out of hospital for the last three years and
Vicki:
Doctors don't admit that diet has every relationship to the gut, to her condition. They don't admit it. In fact, if you ask a doctor how many...days or hours of nutrition, education in nutrition they have, they will give you something like 20 hours or a day. Just like menopause. They have 20 hours of training in menopause and yet 50 % of the population will go through menopause and then they tag, as I was listening to this woman who was a doctor, she's like, you know, they call them wingy women. They're in their 40s, they're in their 50s, they're coming in with all these ailments, the testing's not revealing anything, it was just a problem.
Amra:
And that's the thing, so it's like yeah, and even with what my daughter's going through, to a naturopath. And the naturopath, and that was on the recommendation of someone who's also had a lot of digestive issues and food issues, and it was the naturopath was able to guide us in terms of the diet. And it was just fascinating to me where I'm like, everything I was telling her to eat was what was making her worse. everything that I thought that was good for them was actually creating more of an issue and now where we've gone just to the protein and restricted vegetables.
Vicki:
You know, I wish I could rewind my life and I wish I could feed my children a carnival diet from scratch. I would have had such... I don't know, my... kids are already great. mean, my son, he's an absolute genius, but I just feel as though I would have done them a better service as a mother not to introduce to them. Now, first of all, all vegetables.
have pesticides in them. No matter how much you wash them, there are pesticides. mean, have you seen this? Have you heard of what sprays they spray on these fields? Well, it's big, it's massive and they do go into your system. And not only that, the oxalates in the vegetables, oxalates. I mean, there's a YouTube video called Plants Are Trying To Kill You. Plants Are Trying To Kill You. It's a YouTube video, it's very popular.
millions of views and basically it says that vegetables have oxalates which are their defense mechanism. They're like little shards of glass. think of know spinach when you get that that dry film on your teeth when you eat spinach. you know that? I don't eat enough spinach. But I'm just saying like anyway so vegetables have all the wrong things for the gut.
The has four different stomachs. The cow eats grass, it eats vegetation, eats, let's just call it plants. So it goes through the process, the plants go through the process of digestion because that's what a cow does in order for us to then eat the cow to gain from the nutrients, the gain that the cow got from those nutrients. So we don't really need to eat because we don't have four stomachs, we have one.
Amra
So you're saying in a sense like the if you're eating the protein meat as protein That's where all of those other nutrients also come into it because the animals are actually eating all of those things and digesting them. That's one of the arguments that this gentleman, Anthony Chaffey talks about when he says plants are trying to kill you. It's amazing. It's really quite fascinating. I'm very passionate about carnivore because I've seen it with my own eyes.
Vicki:
Yeah, first hand and I just have so much to say about this one really it's changed my life around it's improved my life a thousandfold I just I just love everything about my life right now. Well, you're the first person I've met in the carnival I've got a friend who's a weight trainer and is very specific in her diet and it is protein three meals a day but with vegetables and she'll
Keto, doing the keto. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. It's basically like every meal is, you know, meat and certain types of veggies and it's very plain but it's she actually weighs and wedges. And then she does the weight training and her health outcomes are really, really great. The only thing that she's battling at the moment because of the joys of perimenopause and periods is...
Iron depletion But yeah, like she she has Really like improved her mood and improved her sort of quality of life through that I think everyone is expected to do a complete turnaround in their lives. Anyway, so I was a vegetarian for
Seven years, before I came to Australia seven years ago. And then, I was staying with my mum for a period, and she was the designated cook, and she would cook with me. And then I started eating meat. Of course, I became a carnivore three years ago. But...
about your friend, she's going through, did you say the peri, what did you say? She's my age, the perimenopause. So if she eats fat, because you said she eats protein. Yeah. And I'm guessing that she's cutting off all the fat and eating just the protein. She's not getting enough fat. If you eat enough fat, and I eat a good handful of fat, that's beef fat. I only choose beef fat. don't do pork fat because pork's a dirty animal, I feel. They eat everything, even their own.
They're own kind. They're own poop. They won't eat anything. Whereas cows, they eat only grass. You can't put poo in front of a cow and they'll eat it. They just can't. And same with lamb. They just eat.
grass and so they're ruminant animals is what you really want that's the cleanest meat. Yeah. And I don't go for organic. I can't afford organic meat. So I just buy the supermarket, just regular supermarket meat. And I don't eat anything else. And a lot of people say it's not expensive. No, it's not when you're not buying anything else. don't have cereals. I don't have tomato sauces and desserts. And I don't have breads and pastas and sauces. And I just don't eat anything. I have a good salt. Yeah.
like a good salt and and beef lamb sometimes every now and again I have some bacon I can have a little unpasteurized cheese as well but not too much because that's also it's it's
It's got additives and stuff in it I suppose, yeah. How would you, because you were a vegetarian for seven years and then started eating meat and everything and then carnivore. Carnivore. So how would you, like you're like your own science experiment. I know. What, how felt, how was feeling? How would you? Well I was very moody as a vegetarian. Yeah. My god, very moody up and down. My periods were so painful and just um.
My husband at the time, he was like, what is wrong with you? I didn't know I was vegetarian. There is that joke where like, peer pressure, when it comes to vegetarianism and veganism, peer pressure doesn't work, but it works with everything else because it's the fun stuff.
Amra
Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing so many things and I'll try and collect to all the stuff that you've been talking about. But a great place for people to start their own journey and just to see what lessons they can get from here. I'm gonna start looking a little bit more at the fact, I have to say. That has resonated for me very much. So thank you so much, Vicki. Thank you, Emma. Thank you for having me. Thank you, everyone.
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